Before we even start talking about Rudolfo Anaya or Sandra Cisneros, you need an introduction to Chicano culture and literature. If you follow the link I posted here, you will be able to download a lecture I once gave about it: introducao-historia-cultura-e-literatura-chicanas
Next, you can read some information about the author if you click here or here.
If you would like to have better contact with his works, my suggestion to you is his best-selling novel Bless Me, Ultima.
But, as for now, let’s comment on “The apple orchard”…
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first!!
a coming of age story, most definitely…..white culture vs chicano culture in the roles of the boy and the white teacher….maybe not vs but one being incorporated by the other? the question is whose culture is incorporating whose?
wow I read this all the way in the beginning of the course I don’t really remember it I have to read it againd I ‘ll be back, just wanted to be first….
hmmm carla q chique nice paper….seriously, what an eye-opener! an apartheid in america! I knew the west had belonged to mexico but not the details about it…wow! it reminds me of that play we read last year, the zoot suit…especially the aztec myth….
When I’ve read this SS I found it very silly, the story of the discovery of the sexuality by the teenagers boys.
I couldn’t see any relevant theme but at the same time I thought I was being naive because every text have sth beyond its lines.
So when I saw the introduction that Carla did here and the link she recommended, I started making some connections and the story started being more interesting because the author has used metaphors to illustrate conflicts of cultures.
I am crazy? Where these 2 SS here at the same time? Where they supposed to be together? Or is it my computer that isn’t showing the last updates?
I’m going nuts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This SS was the one I most enjoyed!!! Great!!!!! First I read the story and after I see my friends’ comments and Carla’s article. So, I would prefer, first to make my own comments and later come back here to analyze for this point of view.
Different from Veronica, I could see some themes and symbols in “The Apple Orchard”. The first one refers to the awakening of teenager’s sexuality. The unknown and curiosity are the factors that influence the characters to break the mirror and put in their shoes, in order to see girls’ panties when they weren’t watching.
“the mistery which was changing the girls into woman would remain unexplained. And not being responsible for the answer was even a relief”
In my opinion, some aspects are very relevant in the SS, as the representation of the woman (the teacher) and nature. The apple orchard is the symbol of the boys, mainly Isador(whose name is only shown in the end) sexuality. This sexuality represents the mystery of the apple orchard.
When the teacher gets naked, the scene is described in a very sensual way, as she was a representation of the nature in which they are immersed. The boy associates the nature with the woman sensuality.
“I walked very slowly to the platform. My legs trembled, and I heard a buzzing sound, the kind bees make when they are swarming around the new blossoms of the apple trees. I stood looking at her for a long time and she stood very still, like a statue. Then I began to walk around the platform, still looking at her…I walked around and began to feel a swirling, pleasant sensation, as if I was getting drunk. I continued to hear the humming sound, perhaps she was singing, or it was the sound of the bees in the orchard, I didn’t know”.
I have just finished the reading of this SS and I felt as if I couldn´t wait to comment on it. I thought it was better not to read anything else in order not to spoil the beauty of it and my pleasure! I don´t know if I´m being silly… but I´m letting it flow…
Sorry, Verônica, but I do agree with Anderson! I may say that it is one of the SS I most enjoyed! As I started to read it, I simply couldn´t manage to stop reading. It really entangled me!!! I’m sure that it is because of the way scenes are described. The sensitivity and the subtlety are so precise!!!
Up to now we have been reading SSs that make us reflect on some quite relevant issues, such as women status, relationships, marriage, children, individualism, truth, religion, culture, society, future, etc. I mean, we have been invited to deal with serious issues. I agree that we do need to think them over. On the other hand, we have been setting aside the one thing that makes literature what it is: the lyrical essence, its beauty.
… to be continued …
. . .
Thus the beauty lies on the way Isador´s sexual awakening is described. On the images built through metaphors. It is portrayed in a so pure and innocent way… full of sincerity! As Barbara said before, it is the coming of age. It reminds us of a moment in life when we were all sinless! When we had a crystalline essence. When we had no masks or boundaries. I may say, when we were free!
This unique moment was achieved through lots of meaningful symbols. Those symbols are the light (from the apple orchard and from Miss Brighton´s hair) X the darkness (found when looking under women´s skirts), the smells (Isador´s mother´s vanity case and the flowering trees), the humming sound, the small mirror, the summer, the names (Miss Brighton and Concha Panocha), etc. As far as we can see, there is a confusion between senses that creates the awakening atmosphere somehow. We can realize it from some excerpts:
Isador: “Last year the girls didn´t seem to matter to us, we played freely with them, but the summer seemd to change everything. When we came back to school the girls had changed (…). They carried their bodies differently (…). An air of mystery began to surround the girls we had once known so well.”
Isador to Miss Brighton: “I wanted to know how women are…why different? How?”
Miss Brighton to Isador: “I understand… but you don´t need to hide and see through the mirror. That makes it dirty. There´s no secret to hide… (…)”.
Isador: “She stood in the center and very slowly and carefully she unbuttoned her blouse (…). Never had I seen such beauty (…). ‘Come and see what a woman is like’, she smiled. (…) I heard a buzzing sound, the kind bees make when they are swarming around the new blossoms of the apple trees (…) Now I know the secret and I´ll keep it forever! (…) That´s why she told me to look! It was like the mystery of the apple orchard (…). Then next spring I would come back to the apple orchard to see the blossoms again.”
That is why, Carla, I became blind to the Chicano issue… inspite of noticing them!!!
I meant, in spite of noticing the Chicano issue…
Reading the links about the author I could realize that he wrote many of his own experience mixed with some other created elements to produce his works. His stories “capture the essence of the Chicano experience” because he was immersed in all of that culture, he portrays Mexican-American culture.
The author’s first contact with the English language was at school, as said in the link: “Spanish was spoken in the home, and Anaya was not introduced to English until he went to school.” This fact could be an element that contributed to the writing of this SS.
The boys were not new at the school but the teacher was, she was different from the others and this novelty made the boys have some new feelings, as the author had when he first learned English. So, he started being part of another world that he was not used to, he was a Chicano in American’s world, and this feeling of discovering also is present in the boys attitudes.
Differently from many of you, I didn´t liked this SS that much. I thought interesting the way the author describes the “chicano” teenagers´ point of view and how he connects nature with the process of maturity. But I really didn´t find anything special or that wouldn´t apply to any other teenager at that time. I didn´t see the symbol of American X Mexican cultures portraited by the teacher and the student. I think the feelings he had in his discovery would be the same if the teacher wasn´t white, for instance. The question was not the peculiarities he saw on her, but the fact that he saw a woman naked, which is sth new for him.
I don´t know, despite the fact that the author gives a realistic description of the teenagers and their feelings, I just thought surreal what happened between Isador and Miss Brighton. Come on! The author was going well and then he “travelled”…
Besides, if there are really these symbols and metaphors, I believe the author stands a prejudicial position, since the teacher is illustrated as an angel and the boys are illustrated as perverts.
Well, I don´t believe anyone would agree with me, and probably my reading was superficial, but that´s my point of view.
I agree with Barbara when she says that this ss shows the coming of age.
I also agree with Anderson and Luciana, when they said that this ss is
about the awakening of boy’s sexuality.
The apple orchard, also in my opinion is the simbol of the boys, mainly Isador (sexuality). They are
really curious about girls and how they grow up, becoming women.
Other importante symbols are nature, the light X dark, the smells, tha
humming sound, the small mirror, the summer and the names -, that Luciana
already mentioned.
I liked the SS, but actually, I don’t really see any mexican influence… I mean, boys will be boys no matter the culture…rs..
the mirror on the shoe thing is older than my grandmother and the was not mexican at all…
I agree with Mel on this point: “didn´t find anything special or that wouldn´t apply to any other teenager at that time” OR ANY TIME.
come on, the boys of this course, didn’t to went through something similar to what Isador goes through? It also happened to us, girls, but in a different way, probably… the ss is about nothing new!
however, I liked it because there’s this innocent feeling, and at the same time this “lost innocence” feeling… all the troubles of discovering you are not longer a child, but not an adult yet… all the sexuality awareness trouble coming out… We’re so young when the changes begin, it’s confusing and the author dealed with it wonderfully.
Also agree with mel in “I just thought surreal what happened between Isador and Miss Brighton. Come on! The author was going well and then he “travelled”…”
HELL YEAH. You wish, boys! A teacher would never do that! get real!
Yet i don’t think, Mel, that the boys are portrayed as perverts… just as…boys! boys do this things, and you know…it’s just normal! It’s childish, boyish, really sooo natural! The idealization of the beautiful teacher, the wish to see “the secrets”…this is all true…not perversion, no!
I’m sorry juliana, but I think it is possible. The author didn’t “travel”. I think it is possible. Iknow a case very similar to it.
When my friend was 16 years old, his psychologist had a sexual relation with him in her room. I think she was crazy, but… it really happened. As he had some problems, he got very confused.
Unfortunately, it never happened with me. It would be great!!!!
Juliana, I said the author could be taking them as perverts to confront whith the perfectness of the teacher, you know, uncivilized vs. civilized… That’s what I thought.
As Luciana has mentioned that “SSs that make us reflect on some quite relevant issues, such as women status, relationships, marriage, children, individualism, truth, religion, culture, society, future, etc.”
This story functions as a mirror, a reflection of the way Hispanic Americans are viewed
by the mainstream culture — but not always the majority.
A prime example was the work of Luis Valdez and Teatro Campesino, his theater troupe, which played a pivotal role in creating solidarity and new social consciousness.
The ability to communicate in two languages, and more important, to think and feel in two languages, at times brings with it the phenomenon of being unable to express oneself fully in only one.
Rodolfo Anaya is a Hispanic American writer and his writing is rich in symbolism, poetry, and spiritualism as he explores the mystery of life and his cultural heritage.
It felt like an Edward James Olmos movie hiihihihihihih
or maybe it was the citation from selena in carla’s paper!
The universality is absutd, its a beautiful SS, I was really touched by the teacher’s act, she was totally conceding her white upbringing by getting undressed and showing the boy what he so desired to see. She was a real teacher.
The Mexican-American thing was that the chicano boys were really rebellious, ghettofied, and almost like “pivetes”. Isador’s father knew the tendency of the Mexican boys, and prohibited him to be friends with them. He wanted his son to be straight, and be as american and as “civiilized” as possible. This shows a sort of internal discrimination. Shame for being mexican, and not “doing it right”. Paco and Chuenco represent the resented side of chicanos, the marginalized.
When Isador startrs to be friends with them again, they convince to steal, to spy up girl’s skirts, they become a “bad ” influence. (i’m not judging them, they are a bad influence in isador’s father’s eyes). They are just curious boys, but since they are meican, the consequences would be much more severe than if they were white.
What the teacher did, in my eyes, was “save” isador. He didn’t have to go down that path, the path of crime, of marginalization. He can achieve his dreams (symbolized by seeing a woman undressed) without having to cheat. She showed him that he was trustworthy, and capable of becoming a man.
She showed him her SECRET, and he would keep it forever!! She aided him to integrate in society without having to steal it.
I also really liked this story because it called my attention to what would happen in the final and how would finish the boy’s curiosity. I think this story and the boy’s feelings were sincere and showed a curiosity that it is common in that age and mainly in boys.
When I read I didn’t believe that the teacher was naked in front of her student but I liked what she did because he was a child. For him it was a discovery and he didn’t have bad things in mind or sexual things, you know? About the discussions above I don’t know if the author was travelling I think it is difficult happening but as Anderson gave an example it is not impossible at all.
It is also interesting how the author constructs the narration mixing elements of nature with the woman (the teacher): “The flowers smelled like her hair and reminded me of her smile.” (p. 80)
In this SS the author portrays his doubts about his place in the world as a Latino and the traditional affliction of a boy moving to adulthood. The passage below from the end of the story reflects how pure and innocent was Isador and I liked so much how the author compares his discovery with the apple orchard. Very beautiful!
“It was like the mystery of the apple orchard, changing before my eyes even as the sun set. All the curves and shadows, and the sounds and smells were changing form! In a few days the flowers would wilt and drop, then I would have to wait until next spring to see them again, but the memory would linger, parts of it would keep turning in my mind… then next spring I would come back to the apple orchard to see the blossoms again. I would always keep coming back, to rediscover, to feel the smoothness of flesh and bark, to smell hair and flower, to linger as I bathed in beauty. The mistery would always be there, and I would be exploring its form forever.” (p. 81)
I started thinking this story by the perspective of sexuality awareness…and the sentence that called my attention was the last in the SS “The mystery would always be there, and I would be exploring its form forever.” How beautiful!!! Love and desire is exactly this, it will never be ready or complete, there will always be new things to discover, building a cycle of searching and desire…
This is also a good sentence to illustrate the conflict that exists in Chicano culture. They are between two cultures without knowing where to go or where to follow. They are lost! They are and aren’t American and Chicano at the same time….CONFUSION!!!
“the mystery would always be there” The mystery of their real identity
“I would be exploring its form forever” The search for identity is endless, because there are changes, influences and in this case, never purity, the cultures are all mixed in these times of globalization… So, what can be considered pure, really American and really Chicano…
hauahuahuahauahuahahauahahauahauha
Maaaaan, now I know why Anderson loved this short story… hehehehehehe
Come on, every man would like to read “The Apple Orchard”. It is impossible not to identify at least a little with Isador. The atmosphere of awakening teenager sexuality, the confusion in senses, the curiosities, the discoveries…. the interest for a teacher… come on, guys, who never “falled in love” for a teacher or even knew a friend or collegue that did it? XD
As Juliana said, this is boyish, extremely natural! ^^
And, particularly, I thought Simone’s comment very interesting. This confusion, this doubt about knowing where to go or where to follow, this atmosphere could illustrate the feelings of the Chicanos as they fought to find their identity. I really liked your comment, Simone! Two tears for you… hehehehehehe
This short story deals with the universal being portrayed by a specific group (the three Chicano boys). 12 years old boys wanting to look at the nude body of a woman, the mirror-on-the-shoe trick, all with an intrinsic innocence.
Probably the fact that the teacher was white and she was the one who introduced him to this new world was significant to the context these short stories are dealing with. Her name has a special significance in this matter, she is often associated with light and her name is Mrs. Brighton. She was his first love; he started to read books to have something to share with her.
The boys felt like they had to move on to the next level, which was seeing a girl without her clothes on. In this sense, the apple orchard means sin, the forbidden. And this was their favorite spot. They felt ready to explore the world in all its good and bad things.
Simone has a good point, I haven’t thought of that!
This short story tells of an absolutely typical and traditional theme which is young boys’ necessity to feel like a “real man”. The only thing that makes them cross this line into “adult life” is the contact with the female body. These are quite common thoughts for a young boy. The avid interest in “sex” and in the woman body is something absolutely common among boys at this age, and it doesn’t make any difference if the boy lives in Brazil, America, Africa or New Zealand, I’m afraid this theme does not have well defined cultural roots… But at the same time I think all this “high school” atmosphere (I know the boys were 7th graders, but I think that applies anyway) is most commonly retreated in American productions. I don’t know if that’s because only the US invest in this type of movie and series, but although events like these happen everyday in any school around the world, I think the idea of school we have (in Brazil) is way influenced by American Culture, and perhaps that also happens to another countries.
You might be wondering what my point is, so there you go…I think that what brings universality to this story is the fact that we have a universal theme (boys in love with substitute teachers) that is usually seen in American stories being applied to Chicano boys, as if they were trying to say that there is no difference between American and Chicano boys.
The school is the place where cultural differences are felt most intensely I think. Children and teens have a natural discriminative behaviour and that associated with strong (or not so strong) cultural differences makes a perfect scenario for isolating “the different”. The boys in this story were not isolated not even social inept, but I think they somehow represent this feeling that there are some particular aspects in which cultural differences are hardly perceived. Please, tell me if that makes sense.
cheers
WOW… I was really excited after reading the story. I thought that the teacher was wonderful. She understood they just wanted to know the secret. And what a secret it is !!! That was what drove them crazy:Wanting to know the unknown. How many times have we all felt like this!Sometimes it hardly matters what the subject is, if it is a secret, its desirable.
After the boy discovered the secret, it kind of faded away. That is the most beautiful part of it all. The journey never ends I think. I believe that most people spend their lives discovering again and again what love (and sex) should be really.
I think that Pico and Chueco were a little less sincere than Isador, but in the end Isador was victorious. Probably the most interested really or just on a deeper level than the others, especially after his father told him never to disturb him and his mother when the door was closed to their room, hmmm this for sure could arouse some curiosity.
I can truthfully say that I just plain identify with the boys. Wondering can drive you to seek the truth in whatever way possible. And when things are so new and unfamiliar, its just so much better and desirable isn’t it?
I imagine sexuality in young boys to be so undeniably innocent. Such a mixture in between adulthood and pure play. Some parents treat it as sometime immoral and wrong but in reality people need to accept that natural things are difficult to deny. That is why I love that teacher. She understands.
The story really touched me. I remembered all over again being a kid and doing things that for an adult would seem little crazy… like writing romantic letters for the boys I liked – so deep words and feelings so passionate but also pretty naive – A world of innocence so necessary to my growing up.
About the chicanos pursue of identity.. I couldt find much, really. Not as a first impression…so I shouldn’t say much.. I may come back after reading it again.
I liked this story because of the beautiful way that the author describes the curiosity about sexuality of a teenager. Simple themes like an innocent love for his teacher, his curiosity about the girls and their “secrets”, and his doubts about growing up are portrayed with so purity and simplicity in this short story, that made it very realistic. I think that it happens with almost all the boys in their passage for adolescence.
Like Mel, I didn’t see any symbol between American and Mexican culture, because like someone said, it happens in every culture, like ours for example.
I totally agree when Luciana says that “SSs that make us reflect on some quite relevant issues, such as women status, relationships, marriage, children, individualism, truth, religion, culture, society, future, etc.” and its elements are strong and as valuable today as they have been historically.
The text refers to the unknown, curiosity an the sexual awakening of a teenager, things that happens with almost all the boys in their passage for adolescence no matter the culture he leaves on. Reading a little bi about the other, seemed to me that he wanted his literature to be accessible to all community, and reflected the strands of history which define us all.
I liked this story. The theme related to the awareness of teenagers’ sexuality was interesting! The boy that “falls in love” with his teacher, as Jean M. said: who never had been in love with a teacher or knew someone who had been in love? This kind of situation is very common and through this common situation, the author introduces some important issues related to the American and to the Chicano cultures.
As Simone said, there is this search of identity; the Chicanos were searching their real identity. And as they were between two cultures, American and Chicano, they always will be looking for their identity. It can not be defined since both cultures are always changing and one influences the other.
I think this Short story is very nice.The themes explored in this SS are present in every teenager’s lives, I think…and as Jean very well pointed out this situation is very common, principally in this age…
I totally agre with what simone said: “This confusion, this doubt about knowing where to go or where to follow, this atmosphere could illustrate the feelings of the Chicanos as they fought to find their identity”
During the readings at web i found a poem with the same name writtenMaria Rilke..food for thought:
Come let us watch the sun go down
and walk in twilight through the orchard’s green.
Does it not seem as if we had for long
collected, saved and harbored within us
old memories? To find releases and seek
new hopes, remembering half-forgotten joys,
mingled with darkness coming from within,
as we randomly voice our thoughts aloud
wandering beneath these harvest-laden trees
reminiscent of Durer woodcuts, branches
which, bent under the fully ripened fruit,
wait patiently, trying to outlast, to
serve another season’s hundred days of toil,
straining, uncomplaining, by not breaking
but succeeding, even though the burden
should at times seem almost past endurance.
Not to falter! Not to be found wanting!
Thus must it be, when willingly you strive
throughout a long and uncomplaining life,
committed to one goal: to give yourself!
And silently to grow and to bear fruit.
As many people have already mentioned I couldn`t realize any Mexican influcence on the SS. I think, as Juliana said, that in general, boys are boys whatever culture they belong to. Besides, who never heard about a boy that fell in love with his teacher???It`s so natural!
I don`t agree that the chicano boys were rebellious, they were just boys and bevahed as many of them do all over the world, especially when their sexuality is being awakened. Those curiosities are very common during sexuality awareness.
I think that Elisa`s comment on the revealed secret : “The journey never ends” is something very common!!!The pursuit of the “new” and the “unkown” is eternal!!!
I did love this SS! Brilliant!
Thsi story remind’s me a little “Amar Verbo Intransitivo”, the idea of sexual awereness and a boy falling in love with a teacher or some superior female figure.
There might be some meaning lying on some specifc facts.
The teacher is clearly represented ideally. I don’t know if we can say it is only beacuse she is a representative of the American culture. But I don’t think we are able to deny it also.
The boys are all chicanos, but there is a very clear distinction separating Isador from the others. When the teacher decides to show the boy what he wanted to see, she takes into consideration this distinction.
Maybe the point in this SS is showing how a chicano boy viewed this American teacher and how the fact that she, being American and possibly having an idea of how the boy viewed her, decided to trust him her secret (which might represent so many things in this SS). The focus here could be how the teacher’s reaction, which was not expected, will affect the boy’s life in a very good way.
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Thanks for the post